Hello writers/readers of MiM,
I have been a long-time reader of this blog and I absolutely love the content — thank you for being honest about both the highs and lows of being a physician-mother. I am currently a medical student, and intent on pursuing a career in neurosurgery. I would also like a (small) family, though currently I’m very single (other than my books ;) ) so any possibility of a family is at least a couple years down the road.
I come to you wonderful ladies asking for advice/encouragement/hard truth —whichever you feel is most appropriate. I was talking to one of my attendings today about my interest in neurosurgery and consideration of various residency programs/sub-i rotations. He gave me a lot of good advice about preparing for residency applications; however, he also brought up the lifestyle of neurosurgery and the difficulties being a female in neurosurgery entails.
I have long realized that having a career in any medical specialty, yet alone neurosurgery, will make the experience for my (future) children different than what I experienced growing up — I had a stay-at-home mom. I had (almost) completely accepted that, but today one of my attending’s choice of words really hit me — he said that I would be an “accessory” to whatever family I have, rather than playing an integral role. This has been quite distressing emotionally as I try to process both 1) if this is truly the case, and 2) if so, if I’m okay with that. I really cannot see myself doing anything other than neurosurgery and so it’s hard to reconcile both my love of this field and my desire for a family.
I appreciate any thoughts you take the time to share. Best wishes for 2017!
Gratefully,
Perplexed Med Student
That is complete and utter crap. Does he have kids? Does he feel like an "accessory?" If he does, he should take it up with his partner/spouse, because that's his problem. Being an integral part of your family isn't necessarily about the amount of time you spend. It's about the quality of the interactions and the values you espouse.
ReplyDeleteWhile I'm not a surgeon, there were years when my husband was home far more than I was. He was definitely the primary parent. I was still not an "accessory." That's just crap - like those people who say that if you have childcare you are "letting someone else raise your children." We are raising our daughter. She has benefited from excellent day care and a series of great sitters over the years, and she always knew who her parents were and we always outranked the sitters. Oh, this makes me ANGRY.
I also think this is extreme. Being a working mother, in whatever manner, does mean that you will not be physically present as often as your mother was as a stay-at-home mother, that is true. It's also true that stay at home mothers who homeschool spend more time with their kids than stay at home mothers who send their kids to public school, and yet, somehow, we don't denigrate stay at home mothers who don't homeschool their kids as "accessories" or "someone else raising their kids."
ReplyDeleteWith that said, as a neurosurgeon, it is definitely possible to be a mother and have a family. My experience with my neurosurgical (and other medical) female colleagues is that it may be easier to have a spouse who has some flexibility. For example, my husband in a pinch can work from home if necessary. My colleague who is a female neurosurgeon has a husband whose hours are much more predictable, at least in terms of being physically present at his job. If you have family nearby in good health then perhaps they could serve this role as well.
When I worked as a PCP, my husband was the one who stayed home when our daughter was sick, because he can also work from home. If he hadn't been able to do that, we would have hired a nanny or had an au pair. Neither of those things would have made me an "accessory."
DeleteIt sounds like someone is trying to give you advice on a subject that he doesn't actually understand, and an experience that he hasn't lived. Does he have female neurosurgical colleague friends who have expressed that they feel like an "accessory" in their family's lives? Very doubtful. Does he have female neurosurgical colleague friends at all? Hmmm.
ReplyDeleteI'm a 38 yr old female assistant professor of neurosurgery, fellowship trained in skull base surgery. I'm an associate residency program director of a top neurosurgical program. I have a busy clinical practice, run a lab, and have numerous positions on national neurosurgical committees etc.
I'm a mom of two girls who are 4.5 and 2.5. I'm the one who knows where their clean PJ's are and has their teachers on speed dial. I'm the one that introduced solids for the first time. I'm the one that did the potty training and still gets up to check on them when they cough at night.
I'm a wife of a man who is CEO of his own finance company. I'm a friend, a daughter, a sister, with all the joys and responsibilities those relationships entail. I'm also a long distance runner who recently took up scuba diving in my spare time.
Your career takes you out of your family if you make that choice... perhaps your mentor has. It is entirely possible to be a neurosurgeon and have a full life. There are pieces that have to be temporarily sacrificed at times, especially during training. But, there are more and more of us demonstrating that it can work. Perhaps we are just way more efficient, better surgeons than your mentor? (kidding, mostly)
Feel free to reach out to me by email if you like - I am very involved in the residency match and I'm happy to give you some opinions about sub-I's etc. I'm also happy to connect you to some additional female mentors with varying perspectives on the subject.
Lola.Chambless@Vanderbilt.Edu
The emotional labor of knowing where the pjs are and scheduling is definitely work. I think the best thing is to be very clear that this is work and does take some of your focus. So that it should be part of how you divide labor within your family.
DeleteAnd outsource as much as possible. If you make enough to have others cook and clean for you (and you don't want to do things for yourself - I love the cooking but not the cleaning) that can make life work.
Do you mind sharing what your typical work week looks like? How many hours do you usually work in a week? What is your call schedule like? Do you feel like you have a good balance with work and motherhood? Thank you!
DeleteAnd another thing: the reframe of this comment is "neurosurgeons have not done enough to address physician overwork and burnout." It's not just a women's issue.
ReplyDeleteThat is a great point. Medicine, in general, should be a career where you can excel while never having to accept a role as "accessory" to your family. It doesn't matter if you are a man or a woman - that shouldn't be acceptable.
DeleteNot a neurosurgeon but there are very few female neurosurgeons at my institution with kids and those who do have a stay at home partner. It's obviously possible as LBC points out but not the norm. It all depends on how much you want/need to be involved.
ReplyDeleteI'm a neurosurgeon and mother to an amazing 5 year old. I'm also fellowship trained in pediatric neurosurgery and currently building up a practice. My husband is an SQL database administrator which allows him to me "the mom" but I am definitely more than just an accessory.
ReplyDeleteMy daughter is a Girl Scout and I attend the moms groups and meetings. I also have positions with the hospital (we are pushing to become more academic) research interests and I am part of the pediatric section guidelines committee.
I can name multiple female neurosurgeons who have fulfilling home lives in addition to fulfilling careers.
Ditto everything Lola Chambless had to say and feel free to reach out to me with any questions. Life outside of medicine is what you make of it.
Catherine.mcclungsmith@palmettohealth.org
This advice sounds very familiar, tho (hopefully) well intentioned. I don't know what to say besides you have to follow your passion. Also, don't do surgery if you need a lot of sleep! (But that applies to men too....) Also, don't get seduced by a specialty bc it is "hard core." It happens. Both of the woman neurosurgery residents I have known are amazing. Both also have a lot of family support to make it all work.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI leave before my kids get up in the morning and often come home just in time to get them ready for bed and read a story. If you don't think you could live with that, don't do surgery. While my days will likely get a little shorter out of training, I'll never be bringing them to school or picking them up regularly. How important are those daily tasks to you? you can definitely be a surgeon and a mom but it will not look like your childhood. I don't want to be discouraging but I have felt pretty discouraged at times by how hard it is, and that advice sounds different to me on this side of the equation than it did when I was a medical student.
ReplyDeleteSorry my comment is such a downer! On the other hand, I understand my little one better than anyone and often find myself 'translating' her speech. I know all her favorite books and toys and she is very attached to me. I don't think that my working has 'harmed' her or our relationship. That said, we have a lot of family support and a nanny. I like thinking about how many adults in her life love her and how many great relationships she has.
DeleteI'm a pediatric neurosurgery fellow and just gave birth to my baby in November. My husband is a fashion designer/artist who works from home so he stays with the baby. We are very happy with this arrangement. The male neurosurgeons at the program where I trained are almost all very proud and involved fathers -- one of the biggest workaholics definitely scaled back on his feverish pace of operating/publishing when he had his two daughters who he talks about non-stop! Another attending said that he was jealous of my husband being a stay-at-home dad. The grass is always greener...
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely untrue - follow your heart. When you become a mom, you are just that - a mom and the center of your child's and your family's universe. There are so many important things that you can do for your family that doesn't involve picking up or dropping of your kids at school. Loving them and bring an amazing role model goes a long way. Just take it one decision at a time... and follow your heart and goals.
ReplyDeleteI know I will make some of you upset by saying this but I think your attending has some very hard to hear but valid advice. as a mother and a surgeon I have had to face the unfortunate reality that I can not have it all. I feel that my career has been sacrificed in some aspects for the good of my children (which I will never regret) but if you do not want to sacrifice anything in career, some aspects of caring for your children/level of involvement will be sacrificed. I agree quality is more important than quantity time, but there is only so far that can compensate.
ReplyDeleteIf you choose the nsgy path, be very careful about where you train. Spend time finding a supprtive program. The one where I work (I'm anesthesia at an academic hospital) is not particularly supportive of women or life balance in general. There have been very few women residents, and two who were pregnant ended up leaving. It sounds like from other comments above that there are more supportive environments out there, so do your research.
ReplyDeleteNeurosurgeons are the badass rock stars of medicine, and if you are a mother, quadruply so. I agree with PracticeBalance above - I would seek out the women above as mentors and try to find a nonmalignant program. Reading GCS15's posts in the past make me truly realize what a hard road that can be, not that it should, but medicine is still rooted in patriarchy and I gather surgery and surgical subspecialties can be particularly brutal.
ReplyDeleteI am heartened, though, by the comments from the Vanderbilt and Palmetto female neurosurgeons. They are paving the way for you and for the future.
First, I am not a doctor, but I am a mother. I happen to be a mom that will be eternally grateful for our main neurosurgeon, who is also a mom, (and her partner neurosurgeon), that saved my 3 yo daughter's life. I don't doubt it is a challenging career, but I want you to know I appreciate all of you out there! Thanks!
ReplyDeleteSincerely,
Mom to 4.5yo w/VP Shunt & JPA