Monday, October 10, 2016

Money and mothers in medical training

Children are expensive. So is medical school. Children take up a lot of time. So does medical school. Unfortunately time and money are two things in considerable shortage during medical training. Mixing children and medical school can be an unhappy combination. We had our baby halfway through medical school (me) and residency (the Mister). There has been lots of discussion regarding the timing of procreation in medicine (eg here and here and on this blog). My general takeaway can best be summarized with this license plate.

I have found some serious life wisdom on vehicle license plates.

My general takeaway 1.1 regarding the subject of timing babies in medical training is that there is no perfect time. Each time is good in some respect and not so great in others. Having spent my 20s in pursuits of other advanced degrees, I didn't want to wait until I had a "real doctor job". But that meant that financially it was not such a great decision. Residents stipend is not enough for supporting a family, especially when one member of said family is incurring expenses of medical school. More than a third of our income goes to childcare expenses, and that's not even including food, diapers, and a multitude of other child related expenses. We are always worried if we'll be able to pay all our bills at the end of each month. I am in debt up to my eyeballs. Financial worries are always lurking in the background of my thoughts, and money has been on my mind even more as I am looking into taking out more loans for upcoming residency interviews.

A friend offered me wisdom from her interview experiences, telling me about some common interview questions, one of them being "Tell me about a difficult experience you had in medical school". I said (almost half jokingly), urrmm pretty much the entirety of medical school since having a baby has been one incredibly difficult experience. It is difficult to separate the experience of being a parent from that of being a medical student, and money has been one of the connecting threads between the two.

Daycare was the only affordable childcare option for us, and we are lucky to have hospital subsidized daycare. It was amusing (not really) when one of my classmates thought that "hospital subsidized" meant that all costs were covered by the hospital and it was free of charge. No, it just means there is a small discount. Though it is a "hospital affiliated daycare", but like most other daycares, it is not a 24/7 facility. Having both spouses in medical training means that both of us have very little control over our schedules. There are plenty of times that we are both working outside of daycare hours. And trainees may have an 80 hour a week work limit, but a child requires care 168 hours a week.

This same classmate who thought that daycare was free, was also surprised to learn that I hired baby sitters to study for medical school exams. "Wait, so every time you have to study, you have to pay someone to watch your kid? Can't you just put him in a playpen and do your studying?" Before I had a baby, I envisioned this picture of getting home from the hospital and spending daily finite hours of "quality time" with the little one and then he would, I don't know, put himself to bed or maybe I'd read him a little bedtime story at the end of which he'd dutifully doze off and sleep through the night, and I'd get more hours of "quality time" studying. Or just like my classmate I assumed that I would be studying while the baby/toddler would be happily playing by himself on the side with his toys, of course, without interrupting me. Those fantasies/assumptions disappeared pretty fast when a real baby (who is now a toddler) showed up.

Talking to other people in our situation (two medical trainees with no family close by) most options I heard of were not financially viable alternatives for us. I have heard people say to not worry about money and keep taking out loans because when I have a "real doctor job", I'll be able to pay it all off. Maybe there is truth to that. But when I look at the enormous amount of debt that I have already accumulated, and when I think about the uncertainty with future physician compensations, I don't feel comfortable taking out loans to whatever amount.

Things haven't always worked out great with this whole arrangement. I have less than perfect grades in medical school. I feel like if it was just the hours in the hospital and then I could come home and eat, pray, love or something, it would be fine. But because work just gets started after getting back home from work, is what makes it so hard. After a particularly rough rotation that had lots of nights and weekend shifts (read: "when daycare is not open" shifts) and an end of rotation exam, I bombed the exam. The course master told me that he was really surprised about my exam performance because the clinical portion of my grade was stellar and there was such a discrepancy between the clinical grade and the exam grade. I didn't know how to explain that for me studying for exams cost money. Whatever little savings we had, had recently disappeared after a family emergency, and as interview expenses had drawn closer, I had scrimped on getting sitters to study for tests.

As a minority it is sometimes difficult to explain or convince people even in the face of overwhelming evidence that social factors control how you experience your life and the color of your skin can change the opportunities and travails you encounter. At some point it is tiring to keep going through the explanations over and over and knowing that unless someone has actually been there, they really won't know what you are talking about. I feel that way about the experience of being a mother in medicine too. I could go blue in the face with my explanations but it is exhausting.

18 comments:

  1. Ack I want to hug you! I hope The Mister is done with residency soon? Paying off this debt is so hard. I know doctor couple that are in so much still ten years out they are wondering how to get their 3 kids to college. Ivy League educations were super expensive.

    I know this is easier said from perspective of time but please know that your med school grades aren't you. Or board exams. Some of the best doctors I know didn't get through it first time around. And there was one guy in my class who was pretty near the top and I've always wondered how on Earth he has any patients because his social skills were quite um underdeveloped.

    No one understands what moms in med school go through, I sure didn't. I smiled at the occasional husband bringing baby to mom between classes but had absolutely no empathy for what they were going through I was too young. That must be frustrating.

    As for finances, can you talk to an adviser who can guide you through this time and help alleviate the stress? My financial adviser I've had for 6 years now is like a part of my family. He talks me through a lot of my stress when there is financial instability in the world. I'll bet with your prospects someone would be willing to help you out. Get references though, there are some snakes out there.

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    1. I feel the warmth of your kind words and electronic hug from afar. I know I should keep grades/scores in perspective but it is still disheartening in the moment. I don't have much knowledge of financial advisers, seems like a good resource, I'll look into it, thanks!

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    2. I use Ameriprise. They make 1% per year so are incentivized to grow your money (you will eventually have money). My first guy made a big hidden commission selling me something. It was buried in small print. Then he got smarmy and patronizing so I dumped him. There are a lot of good ones though.

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    3. Ugh, that first dude doesn't sound like a pleasant experience, glad you found someone you like and trust. Part of me wonders what they can offer me if I don't actually have any money for them to manage. Never hurts to look into it and get some information.

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    4. See my post below- just yesterday I used a financial advisor on a pure one-time consultation basis after giving them a snapshot of our current situation (in a spreadsheet, current assets, debts, monthly cash flow, etc) with a few very specific questions, and it was enormously helpful. Would be happy to share details if you are interested.

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  2. I also want to hug you!!!!

    It is hard. So, so hard. And you're right - it is lonely, feeling like no one understands, or can empathize, and all the explaining, oh the explaining, and kind of wanting to cry.

    I will try not to over-empathize with you, but it's hard because I HEAR YOU sister. I had three kids during training (2 med school, 1 residency) and my husband quit his Master's degree to become a stay-a- home Dad. We lived, ate and were sheltered, quite literally, by debt. I don't know how to make links but I'll try:

    http://www.mothersinmedicine.com/2013/02/guest-post-end-of-residency-rant.html

    This was my rant on this blog 3 1/2 years ago. It didn't focus so much on the finances, but I felt, in part, as I believe you are feeling now. Overwhelmed. Frustrated.

    That being said, obviously having a husband who stayed home meant we did not have some of the stresses you are facing, like paying for childcare so you can study. That must be so painful. Conversely, now 3 1/2 years into my practice (family med, military), with kids in school, hubby is now just ramping up his employment training - he'll be done a training program in 2020 in a trade. So paying back the debt is indeed slow with just one income. Perhaps your dual-doctor family will be able to pay yours down more quickly?

    All that to said, now for the hope, because you need this, and it's not fake: 1. you are NOT alone. You feel that way, but I promise, you are not. We are with you. 2. It will and can and does get better. Way better. You will begin to pay down your debt. You will be done training and have more control. You will. Just hang in there.

    But really I am just aching for you and sending you lots of love.

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    1. Thank you so much for your kind words. And thank you for sharing that post. I hadn't seen it before, but it describes how I feel at the moment so much. I am not quite that close to the end of a training phase to be able to count down days yet, but I am closer than before. I have some upcoming interviews that I am excited and grateful for, but I also have this black cloud, that I am trying to shake off and not drag with me. I certainly don't want to sound negative in interviews.

      It is sooo good that your husband was able to stay home with the kids for a little while, but as we have learned, no choice comes without its associated set of painful sacrifices. Thank you for sharing your experiences, and I am glad that things are looking up for you and it is so different from that time 3.5 years ago when you wrote that post.

      Thank you for your words of hope and encouragement, I can't tell you how much they mean to me.

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  3. Hugs to you. So many are in the same boat and our hearts reach out to you. I had my first at the beginning of MS4, and just last year as a PGY2 in pathology. My hats off to you for navigating new motherhood during MS3 rotations- so so hard. I've benefited from having infants during my relatively lighter MS4 and a full-time research year now, so I know that things have been easier for me than for most.

    It's funny, I was thinking about making a financial-related post yesterday because we finally decided to consult with a financial advisor to look at our situation, which I'd been feeling sort of down about. We found a fantastic person online with experience working with residents who consults remotely- we paid $75 for an hour of amazing advice. I basically wanted someone to look at our situation, tell us if we were doing okay for now, if there was something blatantly wrong we should fix, and whether I should consider refinancing my relatively modest student loan while in residency. My husband was a post-doc when we had our daughter, and now makes an okay income as a PI in academia. We now have 2 kids in full-time daycare in a medium-sized city. Between our combined decent salaries, $3100/month in full-time daycare for two, mortgage, bills, student loan payment, groceries, and other miscellaneous costs we are netting just $1500 a month. Mind you, we have no extra help, no cleaners, eat out inexpensively 1x/week, never hire babysitters, etc. We expected to be scolded and while he did have some great advice for improvements, his overall message was positive, patting us on the back for even keeping our heads above water during this time. I was surprised! He told us we were going to be okay long-term and I felt so much better afterwards (I think I automatically love anyone who gives me this message, I don't care if it's true or not haha!) Anyway, you will be okay too. It feels overwhelming. I am scared of debt from my upbringing and it's hard to hear others encourage you to take out more loans to pay for extra help, cleaning, etc. I know it is probably worth it and has made life manageable for so many, but we just haven't been able to make that leap. It's also hard to see your much younger siblings and peers making bank while it feels like we are going backwards year after year. And I look around at my co-residents and wonder if I am compromising my training by having kids. I probably am to some degree because I simply cannot put the hours in studying that I could otherwise. But it's okay. I wouldn't change a thing. Nothing makes a bad mood slip away than seeing my little crazies. Sometimes I even find myself jogging to daycare from the hospital (a few blocks away) because I just cannot wait to have them in my arms again. I keep trying my best each day, and that's all I can do. You are doing amazing and keep your chin up. Be grateful for every day and try your best to keep perspective... I know it's hard to do when you are exhausted and worn thin. We all understand and are here for you!

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    1. All these kind words and electronic hugs from afar, so heart warming! We live the same way, no extra help except for prn babysitters, no cleaners, no nothin'. Our eating out splurge is usually a Papa John's pizza with a coupon. When our living quarters get to a level that may need a hazmat suit to navigate, one of us gives in and reluctantly acts upon it... I kid. But only slightly.

      I do a lot of mental self flagellation about not being the medical student I want to be or the parent I want to be, dropping this ball or that ball. But you are sooo right, I can't imagine doing it any other way. I can't imagine life without one or the other.

      Thank you for sharing your experiences!

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  4. Sadly, we all have clueless classmates and resident colleagues. It does get marginally better once they start having kids themselves... unless they are the type that doesn't understand why your mom can't just move in with you and do everything for "free." Sigh.

    Hang in there. It probably will be a few years before you have room to breathe (still waiting to get there myself), but you are definitely not alone. When your LO gets a bit bigger, the electronic babysitter can be a lifesaver. That's pretty much the only way I've been able to do any reading at all during residency.

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    1. Yeah, been there too, "Don't you guys have parents?" Although I can't blame them. It is one thing to have a vague idea of something being rough but it's a whole another level of different to go through it. I didn't know the difference until I was there.

      Ah, the electronic babysitter, we have a complicated relationship with that one.

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    2. OMDG, are you still blogging? I loved reading your blog. :)

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  5. Wow, I also send you an electronic hug because I can see you are overwhelmed but ...you are a rockstar. To go through all of that while raising a family must be extremely difficult but I have to tell you, you definitely inspired me! I am trying to decide at the moment whether to go to Pharmacy school or Medical school. Medicine is what I have always dreamed of doing but I am afraid of not being able to handle the workload plus having a family. I am 27, married with a 4 year old and another on the way. Reading your post, has helped immensely. Even though I am terrified of the debt and schedule and crazy work hours etc, I see I am not the only one. Thank you for that. Keep up the hard work because it will all be worth it in the end and you will be able to provide your kiddos with a great future. Any tips for a mom starting a career in medicine would be extremely appreciated too!

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    1. Thank you for your kind thoughts, and hugs from afar to you too. No matter the circumstances, taking the leap into a medical career is not an easy decision. It is even harder if, like you and me, we decide to pursue it later in life. Things are just more complicated with family responsibilities. There have been posts on this blog previously on people contemplating between medical school and pharmacy, or nurse practitioner among other careers. It might be worthwhile searching through the blog archives if you are looking for something specific. If you are curious about something that has not been covered on the blog, you can always email us. It might also be helpful to find physicians and pharmacists and pick their brains, ask them what's on your mind, discuss what you like about medicine or pharmacy. In the end, when it comes down to it, no one but you can really tell you what is the right decision for you. I wish you all the best in your journey.

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  7. Yup yup yup, I'm 26, in MS2 with a M.Sc and 3 kids (3, 2 and 5 mths). No family around and my husband studies civil engineering away from home. He's only home on weekends. Not only do people look at me like I don't know what birth control is (all our kids were planned), they often act like I stuttered when I say I'm in med school, ya know a young mother and a POC. I live in Canada, it's to find good and licensed child care for children under 1 (because you normally get parental leave for close to a year)...I had to show up to the daycare and almost beg haha. It's a gruelling and an isolating experience and the "being poor" thingy...arghhh. It's a daily battle. You're expected to perform like you have no children, expected to parent like you weren't in med school. Well my dear, let's put our armour on ;) I'm with you, wherever you are. We will win this.

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    1. Wow, I am struggling so hard with just 1, I can't even imagine doing it with 3, you are a trooper!! It is really something when people make judgements about other folks reproductive choices. No matter what choice is made, there is always some genius out there happy to volunteer a listing of flaws in someone else's choices.

      The expectations to perform like you have no child(ren) and parent like you are a stay at home parent, they are maddening and unrealistic. Yet it is the part about walking the line between defending the unrealistic-ness of those expectations while avoiding being automatically dismissed because your superiors and peers stop having any expectations from you is what makes it so so hard.

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    2. Your second paragraph -- YES THIS. Exactly.

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